Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been building acoustic guitars since early 08' I have been to Frank Finocchio work shop, Somogyi's voicing a year layer. I have spent a week with Carlos Everett in Atltanta, and various conventions through ASIA and the GUILD. SO i have some training and I know how to build a guitar but man have I lost the [i]MUSE[i]. I am so unmotivated to start another guitar right now. The last one I really finished and delivered a 2 years ago

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It use to be the thing I looked forward to if I woke early and got into the shop or got home for an early lunch. Hell, I even stopped working altogether on Fridays so I could pursue this
Now it just seem like a chore.

Has anyone have this experience?

What did you do?

Richard

Try an ukulele!

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Pat

There is a big difference between building as a hobby and building with the intent of pursuing it as a business. I started out building for the love of it and really enjoyed the challenges and the learning process. But then I started thinking about making money with it, and it didn't take long for the passion to die along with that. To me, I had lost the thing I had really wanted, and that was to find enjoyment in doing something creative. I sacrificed time, money, time with family etc., all in the pursuit of trying to make a go of it as a business. For me, that was nearly the death blow to the whole thing. I'm now only building as a hobby again, and I'm finding enjoyment once again.
I can't say that this is your problem, because all of us are different and motivated by different things, but perhaps it could be the same.

There are some interesting contradictions with building guitars for money, like the fact that you put many many hours of your time into an instrument, and most people wanting handmade instruments don''t appreciate what goes into it. They aren't watching you do the work, nor do they have any comprehension at all about the amount of energy you expend, and only want the price of the instrument to fall in line with what a factory charges. To command the $$ that the very best builders get for instruments is a very difficult thing, because your work has to be literally perfect, and then there's the whole marketing/PR thing that many do in order to get any kind of recognition or following in the industry. It can take all the joy away from it. At least for me, I discovered that those things weren't worth the time or energy.

When I was first building and trying to "make a go of it", I had a cat who was the most awesome cat. He always wanted to hang out with me, and go down into the shop if I was there, but I never let him for fear of something happening to him. He used to chew on the edge of the basement door trying to open it, so that he could be there with me. I lost him way to early to cancer, and now the chewed up door is a painful reminder of something that I sacrificed in the pursuit of the obsession. I am no longer willing to make those kinds of sacrifices. I've discovered what matters most to me.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Nothing wrong with you -- it (guitar making) is a hobby, you owe it zero. Perhaps by ratcheting the intensity down at some point in the future the interest will re-kindle. But if not, rest assured you are not alone, goo gobs of used, unwanted guitar making tools can be found all around. Life's short, people and their interests change -- do what makes you happy.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Really, if building guitars turns out to be a job you dislike getting up for, just get a better job. Do the thing that you love, and it won't seem like work.

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fk2prKnYnI

nuff said......

EDIT: I had to edit this post because I didn't have my glasses on when I originally posted it and got the "n" key confused with the "m" key..... Maybe that was Freudian?

Bruce Sexauer hangs out on both the UMGF and the AGF. He is a professional who has built for many many years. Think he is close to or in his 70's. He has a passion that seems to burn as bright or brighter then any one else I have run into. He is very free and forth coming with information. And how about John Greven, think he has built well over 2000 at about a 50 a year clip. I would think touching base with folks like the ones above might give some enlightenment. Don't know either one personally but I would think that perhaps they may of had similar sticking points. Might be worth trying to contact them or others with similar backgrounds.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

For pros a change of pace might help . A 6 pack of beer and a couple of days of watching TV all day may be a cure all. I have other outdoor pursuits which I focus on when it gets too repetitive. plus having a gud laugh on FB

Richard,
Your question is an important one and a challenge that we all face, especially if building professionally. On the positive side, your lack of excitement probably means that to your credit, you have attained a high level of skill in the craft and you no longer need to get excited over achieving the perfect neck angle or binding job.
One thing that has kept me fired up for building over the long run has been actually playing guitar. It takes commitment to make the time, but is so worth it. We get so wrapped up in building and satisfying clients that we can easily forget why we love these instruments in the first place. It doesn’t matter if we play at the amateur or pro level, we can always play better, and as builders I believe we can carve out a separate (although it can be beautifully connected) slice of life in music for music’s sake.
Study with a good teacher, get involved with guitar societies, spend time and play with fellow musicians, go to concerts. Your senses will grow, and with that will come the strong desire to build better instruments for them and for you, especially if your own ears and playing skills demand it.
Best wishes for your building and playing,
Gary

I had a very similar experience to Don. I started out doing it as a hobby, then thought how hard could it be to actually make money out of this? Lots of people on here even told me the very same thing - that it is quite likely to suck the enjoyment out of it - but I went ahead and tried anyway. Now I know they were totally right. I had one commission and that one commission probably caused me more headaches than anything I've ever done before! After that, I just didn't feel like doing it anymore.
I am now getting back into it again, but I'm making a ukulele instead. I find that change has put the interest back into it again and it means there's a whole lot more to learn. When I've built a few of them, I'll probably try a harp uke or something just to mix things up again.
So basically, try something new that you've never tried before. Try doing some fancy inlays or learning carving (and incorporating that into your instruments) or make an instrument out of scrap. Try making an archtop or a violin or a lute or anything! That's the great thing about doing it as a hobby - you're the boss, so build whatever takes your fancy.
And learn to play whatever you make, as Gary said.

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

"Try an ukulele!"

Or an octave mandolin, or a small harp, or a dulcimer, or a canoe....

Find building projects that are more - or - less challenging, depending on your mood. I like to build things, but not the same things over and over again. I find mixing things up keeps it "fresh". I still build guitars, but sometimes they might be a 4 string baritone tuned in fifths, or a five course (ten string) tenor. I learn from my successes and failures, and learning new things is what I truly enjoy.
When I go back to building a "standard" guitar I find the "excursions" I've taken help me do a better job of it.
I am firmly in the amateur camp, so I don't have to worry about all my creations being shining successes. When you are not doing it for money or acclaim it takes the pressure off and allows you to build freely and explore ideas and "waste" time. And have fun!

The excitement of my customer is a big motivator for me. I keep that excitement up with them by photographing every step of the process and sending them the pics within a day or so of the process. At the end they have a log of the entire build - tools, fixtures, jigs etc. In the process I have gotten a lot better at photography too. I think they have a much better appreciation for the effort the goes into building a guitar when it is done.

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"I've been had again"
Tim Benware
Creedmoor, NC

Richard - you are not the first luthier to burn out. I remember reading in the GAL Quarterly back in the 70's.... can't remember the author, but it was a story of his burning out on repair and building. I thought it would never happen to me.

Then I had 10 very intense years of 80 hour weeks doing service, repair, and building in a large music store. I finally closed the retail shop on March 30th, 1990 and went fishing for 6 months. I tiptoed back into part-time repair and building for close friends and family while I worked in the aircraft industry.

Now I'm retired, doing a little service work for local stores, and working my own projects in the shop a lot more, with ideas grinding away in my head all the time. You gotta pace yourself - that's all. Learn to say NO.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I guess the profession/hobby has to be giving something back for it to be fun. If I was just building guitars and they were sitting around accumulating I'd burn out pretty fast. I think the building has to have some purpose.

Some examples,

You could give your instruments away, charity auctions, friends, family, up and coming young players etc. Lots of warm fuzzies.

You could hang them in a nice store if available and through your lutherie start learning about the retail music business and through the good players and staff at the store get some immersion into the music subculture of the region. If you make good guitars it can open doors to interesting places.

Work on mainly commissions and again meet interesting people and get warm fuzzies when things go well.

Make a lot of money. (Unlikely)

A combination of the first three. Forget about four

Or-

Build an Archtop or as mentioned a Uke, Octave Mandolin, or learn some new construction technique like double sides and tops, new finishing techniques etc.

If none of that works becoming an expert on the various formulations of single malt scotch whiskey would be a good option.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

When I suffer builder burn out , I take a few days sharpen my shooting skills and beer testing. Then often I make something off the wall just for fun. After all no discovery was made by status quo thinking. The point is , if it ain't fun why do it. A break may help more than working through the boredom.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Once my hobby became my profession, I found I had a lot more time on my hands.

So I found a hobby. Today, I carve necks.

Tomorrow, I get up a 4am to stand nuts deep in the Burrard Inlet beach fishing for coho. When the tide comes in, I'll head up the cap river and roe fish the pools for coho.

I expect to spend most of the day doing so, and to donate 50$ worth of gear to the fish gods, and to not think about guitars at all, and be ready to hit it running Monday morning...

Can't agree more to the sentiments expressed here and Don particularly hit my thoughts on it.

Richard, I do this WHEN I enjoy it and I'm in the mood. If I'm not, I don't. I haven't built in 2 years because I haven't felt like it. I have also learned that I don't want to build guitars on commission. Having to feel the pressure of perfection and delivery time frames, no matter how self-imposed, just takes the relaxation out of it.

I've built 21 gits in 15 years and number 22 WILL come, but not one second before I'm ready to.

Chris - 6 months fishing???? OH, does that sound tempting....

Glen reminds me about the commission thing... Man, I hate that. I found that when faced with a deadline that anything bad that can happen probably will. I don't have the workshop space to really organize all the "stuff" I have in their, so accidents are far more likely to happen, and do. To me, being on my own time frame works way better. The OM I'm almost done with was started at the end of 2011... and yet it has been a great experience as a result. I've learned that taking my time and going slowly has been not only been more enjoyable, but I've found the ability to focus and enjoy the slow passage of time in doing simple things like wet-sanding by hand. It can be quite relaxing...and there is no rush to make it happen really quickly. I guess that's what a hobby is supposed to feel like.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

What changed? Why did you want to build guitars in the first place, and what's different about the reality of it? Just more work than you thought it would be? Some particular task(s) you hate doing? The learning was the fun part and the doing was always unpleasant? Has your life situation changed?

Usually what causes burnout for me is feeling obligated to work on a particular project. Deadlines are an effective way to get work done fast, but if you want to be in it for the long game, you have to avoid such stressful methods, which accumulate negative memories associated with the activity.

Even without money involved, I have to watch myself. I enjoy sharing my work in doc-u-build threads, and participating in things like the St. Louis gathering and OLF build challenges, but in the past I've gotten myself all stressed for no good reason. Feeling like I owe it to my readers to keep updating regularly, or trying to get stuff done in time to show it off, or like dropping out of a challenge is a horrible failure But all those things are more fun for everyone involved if I'm happy, so I've just gotta resist those impulses to work faster than my natural pace (which makes glaciers look like raging rivers).

My long-term plan with building is to just do what I want, and put the finished instruments up for sale so there never is a deadline. Probably on consignment at stores, so lots of people can try them, and I don't have to do the salesman routine. Custom building may be more profitable, but not enough to offset the cost to my enjoyment of the work.

Tell me about it.

Years ago, I was repairing the broken neck on a Gibson flattop. Nothing went right, and when it came time to spray lacquer - it rained for weeks..... a lot! The guy called to check on it, and I told my sob story, but he was tired of waiting. Told me have it done a certain Friday at 5PM, or he'd kill me. And I believed him!

He walked in about 5 seconds after I finished it, and I told him not to leave it in the case when he took it home. The finish was so soft you could dent it with a fingernail, and then it would smooth out. He never said a word to me, but his check was good!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

The whole thing started to unravel for me too, when I began to think of it as a business. I mean ...sunk like a lead balloon. I've aborted that line / dream now, and after a cooling off, find the passion returning. Common story it seems.

It is a common story. I burned out on mandolin making after turning it into a business. I had a pretty good business going for many years, but it turned into a 4 year backlog (hard to climb out of) and I got so sick of mandolins that I couldn't even pick one up or even look at them. I could also see the demand for them diminishing as the economy dropped like a rock and Pac Rim mandolins came into being. I turned back to guitars and finally, after many years of almost "hate of mandolins", I came round to building one more before I retired completely.
When I turned back to building guitars, I decided I would not build more than 1-2 orders per year and devote the rest of my time to experimentation. Not trying to turn guitar building into a business, I found it much more satisfying and took all the stress out of it.

Thanks for starting this thread, it's a very timely one for me. I haven't built an instrument since 2012, and am still feeling pretty apathetic about it today. I have a 000 about 3/4 finished, and it's just sitting in boxes. I have my shop all set up and ready to go, but I can't seem to think of anything I want to build down there. After the last guitar, I started an Etsy shop making and selling small household accessories. Candle holders and that sort of thing. They were quick and easy, and truth to tell, I believe I made more money with those than I ever did with guitars. But, they weren't much challenge and I'd like to get back to building guitars again. I'm hoping that inspiration will strike pretty soon. Perhaps reading others' experience in this thread will help.

Chris-

Commissions and deadlines are the killer for me too. For 15 years now I've built nights and week-ends, then part time, and full time for a while, before going back to nights and week-ends. I have stopped taking new commissions, and as soon as I finish my backlog next summer I will go back to making just what I feel like. The motivation to build instruments according your dream is different form the discipline to build for someone else. Some can combine the two easily, but many cannot.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Great thread.

I've been at it for forty years or so. I started making mountain dulcimers, and branched out from there. The last time I added it up I'd made at least eight or ten sorts of stringed instruments, amounting to more than thirty different models: five different sorts of Classical guitars, five models of flat tops, two or three sizes of steel string archtops, and several different harps in the 'guitar' category, for example. In addition I do research into guitar acoustics, and teach folks how to make the silly things.

Variety IS the spice of life. It's also a good way to smooth out market fluctuations: when folks stopped buying dulcimers I just switched over to making more guitars. Don't let anybody tell you you have to specialize to get good at it: that making violas will necessarily cut down on the quality of your violins. I learn something from every new sort of instrument I make that gets transferred back to all the others. When I started making guitars my dulcimers got better, and making violins improved my guitars. Remember that Strad made not only violins, violas and 'cellos, but viols, mandolins, guitars, harps and so on: anything with strings that would sell.

IMO, one key to this is developing hand tool chops. Back when I started StewMac didn't exist in the way they do now; you couldn't just go on line (what "on line" forty years ago?) and order a specialized tool or jig for every operation. It was a pain in the butt to learn how to do all this stuff by hand, but when you can do binding rabbets with nothing but a marking gauge, chisel, and file you don't worry so much about trying something new and weird. Besides, you don't end up with a shop full of jigs that are only good for one operation on one size and shape of box.

I will say that commissions can be a drag, particularly when they all seem to want the same thing (because you got good at that). Sometimes a 'side' project can help keep you going into the shop, so long as you don't let it take over your life. For me, acoustic experiments can do that: I have to be really careful not to start that stuff when I have orders in hand, or they'll never get done. Still, there's always some way to inject a little interest into yet another commission for a 12-fret 000, if only by trying a different wood combination. And, if nothing else, there's always the new finish you have to learn to use because they stopped making the one you're used to, or the new inlay material because the old one is now illegal.

The bottom line is to keep learning. Ask yourself: was the last one really perfect, or could you improve on it? If you've been making Bluegrass Dreads so you've got them down pat, try a Parlor for fingerstyle, or make the big leap into archtops. It's been said that learning is like painting a huge wall: the more area you cover the longer the edge of the unpainted part is, and that edge is where you learn. This is a bottomless well of things, encompassing history, technology, materials, methods, science, and art. Let the money making 'job' be a sideshow to the real purpose of learning everything there is to know about this craft and you'll never burn out. You might also surprise yourself by making some money (eventually).